IND-SAS 2.0 | VETOED (1-3)

[Former Spurs GM (Adam)]

Pacers Receive:
C Marc Gasol - Grizzlies (2013/14 $14.86) (2014/15 $15.83)
SG,SF Gerald Green - Suns (2013/14 $1.17) (2014/15 $1.28) (2015/16 $1.41)
PG,SG Jerryd Bayless - Celtics (2013/14 $3.14)
Total : $19.17m

Spurs Receive:
PF Amare Stoudemire - Knicks (2013/14 $21.68) 2014/15 $23.41 TO)
SG/SF Giannis Antetokounmpo - Bucks (2013/14 $1.00) (2014/15 $1.10) (2015/16 $1.27) (2016/17 $1.45 (2016/17 $1.82 QO
PG,SG Nate Robinson - Nuggets (2013/14 $3.59) (2014/15 $3.95) (2015/16 $4.34) (2016/17 $4.78)
2014 LAC 2nd round pick
2015 IND 2nd round pick
5 Million Cap Space
Total: $21.27m

I have to play for next year at this point. My team has a good record, but look closely and it's clearly a result of playing an easy schedule and catching a few breaks. This trade definitely helps the future of my team.

From the beginning of the year, it has been one of my goals to move as much talent as possible into lower salary players. I believe Giannis is extremely talented. I expect nothing less than a top 100 player, and hope he could one day follow in the footsteps of Nicolas Batum. In my opinion, there's no other rookie that I'd rather own. It is debatable, but there are solid reasons for believing in him. He's going to get defensive stats and rebounds from the SG position. What surprised me is his willingness to pass and get to the free throw line. There's just a lot to like when looking across the board at the diversity of categories he can help with. I'm trading production this year for sustainability.

Stoudemire has no chance of living up to his contract. However, rather than a negative, his expiring contract is beautiful in that it allows me to move talent into a lower priced player, and have that $20m to spend on a free agent next year. I'm not picking up his TO, it's not a burden. At the same time, Stoudemire has been pretty good and picking up the pace lately. 7 of his last 9 games would have been very useful for any team. Even though I want to use his contract in this way, its not unreasonable to give up something for him.

Nate Robinson fills a desperate need on my team as well at PG. His role should increase with Andre Miller having fallen out of favor, and he can be a useful role player beyond this year. Bayless isn't of any use to me, backing up Jordan Crawford playing in Rondo's shadow.

The 2nd rounders are trade pieces. LAC's 2014 2nd round pick was recently traded for Will Bynum. I'm sure I can use it in a similar way.

I really appreciate the Pacers patience in working on this, and being willing to try again. Thank you.

[Domingo]

Accept - Same reasons as last trade, I am In a better position to compete now, While spurs gets Giannis who has already shown he can stuff the stat sheet as a starter and who is on a great contract.

[Thunder GM (Tiago)]

I was trying not to vote first on this one, because I didn't vote on the first deal that got vetoed. That's because I don't think this one is sufficiently better than the first.

I totally understand what both are saying, but what Adam failed to justify is the loss of the #10 overall player last season and #22 this season per game. Gasol is not a Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic, Hibbert or Al Jefferson type of player, all of them between the #40 and #65, that would make much more sense in this deal.

Gasol is a top 15-25 player by any standards, and he still has another year of contract.

I would have understood if he was being trade for Giannis (who I also believe will be a great stat filler) and another 1-2 young pieces with decent potential. But Amare is terrible, and the fact that he has an expiring contract makes it easy do get him, but his value is still zero. The salary dump is another positive part of this deal going IND way. And Nate at 4M/5M for another 3 seasons is not a great piece to acquire as he already proved us that he can't be consistent in any system or team.

The addition of Green who's the second best player in the trade by SAS is mind boggling.

If we try to separate the trade in parts to evaluate it, we can try like this:

Robinson for Bayless is totally fair
Green (#85 overall for the year)for two 2nd rounds and 5M is a win for IND but I assume it would be approved
Gasol for Amare and Giannis is terrible for SAS also

Like I said Amare has close to no value and even with an expiring a first would be an overpay for him. So, even if I really like Giannis game, I think that this is still very loopsided and the addition of the 2 seconds are not enough.

As a comment, if someone want to know my opinion, this trade without Green would be much more fair.

Veto (0-1)

[Deleted]

I've been trying not to vote on this as well because me and Indiana are pretty close opponents and I didn't want to have a conflict of interest, but I'll go ahead and give my honest opinion.

First off, I approve this deal.

Gasol does have value, but Giannis is a stud in the making. I see him as as Batum 2.0 with more upside. He's only 19 years old..19 years old..

Gerald Green is good, sure, but when Bledsoe is healthy he is maddeningly inconsistent not unlike Gerald Green. Amare has been doing decent, and even though he's always at risk for injury, he has essentially a one year deal which is a great piece to have. $20M off the books next year? Sign me up. (See: Dirk Nowitzki)

Best player in the deal? Gasol for sure, but Indy is gaining $17M+ in cap next year, while the Spurs are wiping $13M off the books. Would I do this if I was SA? No, I think it's a bad move to make when you're one of the best in your conference playing without Gasol for most of the year. But Giannis could easily be the best player in the deal in 2-3 years.

APPROVE (1-1)

[Lakers GM (Renato)]

I vetoed the first one and I'm vetoing this one as well. I would've approved if a 1st round was being traded or some other young piece going SAS way, as way of properly reworking the deal. Actually anything else going SAS way would have my approval. But the inclusion of Gerald Green for Nate Robinson+a 2nd doesn't make it better at all. In fact, it moves it further from that thin line between veto and approval.

My vote won't change for this one...

Veto (1-2)

[Celtics GM (Jose)]

Let's look at all the assets individually:

- Marc Gasol #10 last year, #22 this year, 28y, 2y contract
- Gerald Green #85 this year, #49 last month, 27y, 3y contract
- Jerryd Bayless #226 this year, #148 last month, 25y, 1y contract

- Giannis Antetokounmpo #226 this year, #136 last month, 19y, 5y contract
- Amare Stoudemire #250 this year, #240 last month, 31y (feels like 41), 1/2y contract
- Nate Robinson #184 this year, #200 last month, 29y, 4y contract
- 5M in cap space
- 2x 2nd Round


Gasol >>> Giannis > Green >>> Bayless > Robinson (those 4 years are bad for sure) >>>> Amare


I can't even understand how Dirk and Amare could be placed in the same sentence (that was a total reach Royce ). Dirk is the #7 ranked player with our stats this season (#12 last month) and Amare is well bellow league average. There's a big difference.

I remember when Gerald Green entered the NBA. He wasn't much different from Giannis. I know some folks are joining the "Greek Freek" bandwagon, but this is a trade of Top-15 player for an unproven rookie with only 32 games to show.

I have no problem with that kind of trade, as long as the player giving the proven player receives something in return and that is not the case here. Every asset that SAS adds to the trade is (in my opinion) more valuable than the one he's getting.

Also Indiana is "gaining 17M in cap next season" by paying 15M to a Top-15 player. If I traded Nick Calathes and got Lebron I would "gain" some cap as well.


Vetoed (1-3)

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2014 19:54:42 GMT Celtics GM (Jose) said:

Let's look at all the assets individually:

- Marc Gasol #10 last year, #22 this year, 28y, 2y contract
- Gerald Green #85 this year, #49 last month, 27y, 3y contract
- Jerryd Bayless #226 this year, #148 last month, 25y, 1y contract

- Giannis Antetokounmpo #226 this year, #136 last month, 19y, 5y contract
- Amare Stoudemire #250 this year, #240 last month, 31y (feels like 41), 1/2y contract
- Nate Robinson #184 this year, #200 last month, 29y, 4y contract
- 5M in cap space
- 2x 2nd Round


Gasol >>> Giannis > Green >>> Bayless > Robinson (those 4 years are bad for sure) >>>> Amare


I can't even understand how Dirk and Amare could be placed in the same sentence (that was a total reach Royce ). Dirk is the #7 ranked player with our stats this season (#12 last month) and Amare is well bellow league average. There's a big difference.

I remember when Gerald Green entered the NBA. He wasn't much different from Giannis. I know some folks are joining the "Greek Freek" bandwagon, but this is a trade of Top-15 player for an unproven rookie with only 32 games to show.

I have no problem with that kind of trade, as long as the player giving the proven player receives something in return and that is not the case here. Every asset that SAS adds to the trade is (in my opinion) more valuable than the one he's getting.

Also Indiana is "gaining 17M in cap next season" by paying 15M to a Top-15 player. If I traded Nick Calathes and got Lebron I would "gain" some cap as well.


Vetoed (1-3)

I only meant to compare their salaries. Anyone with half a brain knows they aren't equal in any sense in terms of production. I just meant that a $20M expiring salary is very attractive for any team that wants to build for next year.

Sorry Spurs, I did the best I could for what I considered an even trade, but really it depends on how other people view Giannis and it seems like we're not in the majority.